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LFC What is the "Accepted for Value" approach?

Home Forums General EHTrust/EHT Topics and Creative Real Estate Financing LFC What is the "Accepted for Value" approach?

This topic contains 38 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of scott_l._moyes scott_l._moyes 11 years, 3 months ago.

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    Avatar of scott_l._moyes

    I thought I would start a thread on a new approach for Mortgage Settlement and one that LFC is now taking on. Me and Dave are very excited about it.

    Perhaps in the coming weeks, TJ will elaborate on this for the general public on a Live Wednesday Introduction Call. However, in the meantime I encourage all of you to do some of your own research on… “Accepted for Value”.

    There are some great “Accepted for Value” videos on youtube. Just go to http://www.youtube.com and type in the key words… “Accepted for Value”. You will see a few video references to Winston Shrout. He has some very good video and information on the subject.

    Avatar of sstanton

    I did do some research on that yesterday (enough to be dangerous, though) and found it quite interesting. So far, (and I have a lot more to read), I did not connect the mortgage with A4V. Most of what I found was just getting rid of car loans, credit card debt, etc. I will do more research today, especially the specific links, like the one Scott started with here.

    Life just keeps getting more interesting…

    Avatar of corkhorner

    Stu, I only watched the YouTube until I went to sleep.
    There wasn’t any magic tricks even.

    What I got out of it was a piece of paper gets very valuable wih My sig.

    Let’s put my sig and yours together and start a yacht club in Billings?

    c h


    There are some great “Accepted for Value” videos on youtube. Just go to http://www.youtube.com and type in the key words… “Accepted for Value”. You will see a few video references to Winston Shrout. He has some very good video and information on the subject.


    WOW!!! People you need to check out the above link. I didn’t fully grasp and understand “Accepted for Value”(A4V) until I reviewed ALL of Winston Shrout’s YouTube videos. Amazing stuff! In one of Mr. Shrout’s videos he talks on trusts, trustees, and beneficiaries that is mind blowing!

    Thanks, Scott for sharing this information and knowledge.

    Gerry Suguitan

    Avatar of scott_l._moyes

    @gerry_suguitan wrote:

    Thanks, Scott for sharing this information and knowledge.

    I haven’t figured it all out myself yet and I wish I could take all the credit for sharing this info. You all need to thank the smarter half of this partnership for this contribution, Mr Dave Salcido.


    @Scott_L._Moyes wrote:

    … I wish I could take all the credit for sharing this info. You all need to thank the smarter half of this partnership for this contribution, Mr Dave Salcido.

    Thanks Dave, for sharing this information and knowledge! Scott, Dave, and Bill I just want to say I appreciate all the great things you are all doing for us NARS members.

    Gerry Suguitan

    Avatar of corkhorner

    Has anybody figured out who is Winston Shrout?
    Google isn’t much help.

    c h

    Avatar of dave salcido
    dave salcido

    @homesavers wrote:

    I mean what are we really trying to do here in this forum? I would like to learn how to use the EHT to acquire properties and make a profit (more legal tender to pay debts and to help others in need). I would like to work with like minded people who have a buyer when I have the seller or vice versa.

    I am not really interested in bringing deals to Dave or Scott to work since I would like to work them myself. All I need is a good marketing program and maybe this forum is not the place to find it.

    I think this question was answered in the training that we had. And you do not have to bring deals to anyone. That was the beauty of the training.

    1. Find “don’t wanter” homeowners
    2. Get the homeowner to assign you a beneficiary interest in his/her/their land trust. (Equity Share)
    3. Get the property free and clear of pretender lender liens using whatever method works best
    4. Sell the property and split the proceeds or leave the property in the beautiful, fantastic, inimitable EHT and cash flow forever and a day
    5. Repeat process until you don’t want to do it anymore

    Avatar of gshepherd

    @Scott_L._Moyes wrote:

    I thought I would start a thread on a new approach for Mortgage Settlement and one that LFC is now taking on. Me and Dave are very excited about it.

    Check out the yahoogroup RedemptionByMethod. I download every message and sift through the relevant ones. It is a high volume list and perhaps <=5% of messages deal with mortgages or RE related subjects like paying off RE tax bills.

    Overall A4V is very simple. The more you read the more you get confused (but do read up on frivolous charges). Get yourself a red and a blue pen and start turning bill statements into money orders. YOU CAN DO IT.


    Avatar of dgraber

    Per Cork Horner:
    “Has anybody figured out who is Winston Shrout? “

    Here is his website:


    Avatar of corkhorner

    It appears that Winston Shrout is located in Portland where LFC is?

    c h
    I have always been out of the box,,but OOOOOOOOOOO My Gawd.

    Avatar of dgraber

    I did a little more digging on Winston Shrout, and his name kept coming up associated with the words scam, fraud and tax evader. These are just a few of the links. In some cases, where the page is very very long, it’s easier to run a page search on the name “Shrout” to find where he is discussed:

    The following post contains this sentence, early on:
    “A really wacko tax scam involving bible quotes and “redemption or
    acceptance for value” sight drafts (checks)”





    sign says this domain may be for sale:

    I sincerely hope that the methods TJ Marrs is advocating do not trace back to what looks as bad as this alleged Winston Shrout history, but it doesn’t look good….

    Avatar of corkhorner

    dgraber, thank for the ‘F U’…follow up.

    Either the charges/allegations are accurate or the political powers are setting him up.

    I will look thru the references later.

    c h

    Avatar of dgraber

    It would appear that a poster named “freemanshrout” uploaded this video on Oct 20, 2009 describing much of the administrative process that looks very much like what TJ Marrs uses onto YouTube:


    While it’s not proven that “freemanshrout” is Winston Shrout, a comment by “freemanshrout” below the video recommends viewing some Winston Shrout videos.

    Avatar of kumar

    At the risk of being ostracized for bringing up arguments against accepted for value, I do want others’ input on where am missing the boat. I’m still open and hope LFC can rely on proven repeatable processes and not try what seems to me now to be unproven, questionable tactics.

    As a full time real estate investor, who was forced to be laid up on a bed 90% of my day due to debilitating back pain from a being rear-ended in a car accident, i’ve had time to research a lot of things on my trusty laptop.

    I heard of/researched/ read many articles/and watched countless hours of youtube videos about Money as Debt/ USA being bankrupt since 1933/A4V/ strawman/ your birth certificate being monetized/ your name in ALL CAPS being an incorporated version of you that can engage in commerce with other legal fictions like banks, governments and corporations.

    I scanned Mary Elizabeth: Croft’s (yeah they use the colon : when they become freemen on the land. Hence Winston Strout is freeman Strout) book “How I clobbered every bureaucratic cash-confiscatory agency known to man” a book that TJ Mars recommends on his site. A book about Mary’s successes with A4V and redemption. (Great book title by the way, and in my opinion, anybody who references and reconciles both Ayn Rand & Werner Erhard’s philosophies in the same book has got to be a deep, independent thinker, so I liked that about her.)

    Anyway the A4V & redemption theories and pseudo-legal arguments all sounded great, internally consistent, and had some success stories here and there with getting traffic tickets and small debts discharged with A4V. But I wasn’t sure if these were being written off because they weren’t worth the creditor’s time fighting and when push came to shove with big debts, or with enough people doing it to raise red flags, the banks/feds will pull out all the stops and make an example of someone or some people.

    So I started searching for external validation of this secret redemption process and what I found gave me pause.

    Apparently Wesley T: Snipes (notice the colon) was using this process and got into trouble. If he honestly believed he didn’t have to pay taxes, the IRS argued, then why did accepted for value and try to pay with a $2m phony promissory note? He got convicted but is not in jail yet so maybe he knows something I don’t. Or maybe these guys who stepped forward on his behalf claiming WESLEY SNIPES (the strawman not the individual) is their bonded property, know something.

    Not willing or able to test this theories at that level, I needed a simple way to separate the wheat
    Money as Debt (Google this must see video),
    Banks do turn Prom. Notes into Money and discharge/retire/disappear the principal when you pay it off but pocket the interest, and are licensed to do so legally but should charge a one time service fee not pretend it’s a loan and charge you interest for 30 years

    from the chaff/theory
    (you can access your treasury direct account with made up money orders or the Accepted for value process.)

    Luckily I found sites from other long term members of the Patriot/redemption/sovereign/freedom movement who have researched/tested some of these theories in court and found what worked and didn’t work. People like
    http://richardcornforth.com/promo_video.htm (Google his name for more videos and how he manages to use the corrupt legal system to VOID court decisions and default judgments, etc.) or
    http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/deadissues.htm (highly recommended. fantastic research on related issues and click below for A4V)
    finding similar info and major disagreements within the movement left me very uncertain to say the least and I decided to give up this line of research.

    Then i came across TJ Mars’s Living Free and Clear system started researching it and was excited to find out a trusted source, NARS, was recommending it.
    So I suspended disbelief once more and started researching the materials he provided to support accepted for value, mortgage cancellation, they didn’t loan you money, international promissory note, administrative process, UCC, etc. and the guru’s he said were having more success than the 1 success his students had.

    This led me to the Dallas Debt podcasts that interviews a lot of the gurus in the redemption movement with regard to helping people out of foreclosure n credit card debt.
    But then the gurus here too started contradicting each other. (i.e. theories are experimental, not reliable, and are opinions not facts)

    A Doug Riddle was on an episode of Dallas Debt podcast (see link above) to say he was having a lot of success sending the A4V to the IRS office in D.C. instead of to the CFO of his creditors and has had several debts discharged, his website has a letter from the IRS to prove it. http://catsa4v.homestead.com/ (you have to listen to that audio for the password to his site but the proof looks authentic)

    then on another episode a Mickey Paoletta (http://www.citizensreformcenter.com/) says he was having court room success with foreclosures and credit card debt challenging lenders to prove that they ever loaned you money or gave you a credit card. When asked about A4V Mickey says, “with all due respect” he is not an expert on A4V but has a lot of friends sitting in jail because they tried the A4V process, and so he does not use it. But if it works for you do it. He prefers to fight inside their legal system and beat them in that box and teach people a much simpler system of “No, No, No based on what I know, you did not lend me money”. (i.e Federal Reserve Notes are prom notes and not money).
    BTW Mickey thinks non-judicial foreclosures are a violation of your 14th amendment rights, not being told you were waiving your right of due process in a de novo (sp?) contract, and giving somebody else your house.

    Then another episode featuring Jerry Kane (aka Gerry Kane) a self taught legal scholar. At the beginning of that episode a young lady comes on to talk about how she took the foreclosure fraud FBI packet, (a packet floating around the net with affidavits and court exhibits, dealing with how banks don’t lend money, how they fraudulently securitize the mortgages, etc.) to an FBI office and how they were sympathetic to her case. There was also talk of how a foreclosure case disappeared from the court docket after this packet was introduced into court as evidence. Then Jerry Kane comes on (not knowing what had just been discussed) and says how he started researching the legal citations in the Foreclosure Fraud packet and found a lot of mistakes, legal citations that cannot be found or things taken out of context. (And remember he is guru, sympathetic to the cause.)

    Jerry Kane advocates the A4V process but says not to send it to IRS but to AFV, sign it and give it back to whoever (institutions but not your fellow man) is presenting you with the bill. He reports some great successes with firing your mortgage trustee/rescinding your one sided contract called a mortgage and appointing new trustee/mortgagee. He seems to know a lot about the law. Check out his youtube videos too.

    So I can’t say for sure A4V doesn’t work or that it works and the FBI is just trying to scare people by linking unrelated scams to it http://www.fbi.gov/majcases/fraud/fraudschemes.htm#redemption
    but the whole thing gives me a huge pause.

    It also makes me wonder if TJ has seen the failure side of this experimental process including people sitting in jail or at least spending big money to defend themselves in court?

    I don’t know much about TJ but I do have a lot of respect for Bill G. and by extension the people on this board/forum. So fellow NARS members, I’m willing to listen to your point of view backed up with facts. please try to avoid flame wars and/or name calling. You are the only reason I’ve even given LFC the serious consideration that i have.

    One is tempted to promote it, without paying for it myself, but that will not sit well with my conscience especially given the lack of multiple successes & social proof. Besides, comparing the $3k – $5k he charges for his paperwork n coaching, to the low fees other Redemption for Profit gurus with track records charge, I will want to be convinced this thing works and will stand up in court before asking other people to invest in it.

    I seriously hope TJ’s system can be redesigned to work without the A4V, without a promissory note that has nothing backing it, without a promissory note that doesn’t provide an interest income and/or an income stream to the receiver. I know he says only use what you are comfortable with, but the promissory note part seems to be an essential component of his system.

    I’ve also seen other systems promising mortgage cancellation through TILA/RESPA forensic audits and rescission. Normally a rescission means you get back your closing costs, mortgage is canceled and lender gets back his principal. But this system claims you can rescind without paying back what the lender gave you because there was fraud in the factum and the lender is subject to punitive damages and so won’t get back the principal and you get your house free and clear. I’m not sure if that holds water, but something to research as it may be have documented case law behind it and would be on this side of the law.

    That’s all i have to contribute for now,

    Still learning

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