Home › Forums › General › EHTrust/EHT Topics and Creative Real Estate Financing › to Steve Odette
September 19, 2008 at 11:52 pm #5146
You are a better man that I might be. After the first volley with this Bozo I would have either ignored him or drove over and kicked his ass.
Whomever he may be, he quite obviously knows nothing about beneficiary-directed trusts, much less the nuances of title-holding land trusts or the alienation provision exceptions under GSG (re. Title 12 USC…Act). I talk to the major banks across the US everyday about what we do and they all understand that since there is no sale re/ and EHT and that a trust property can be leased out by a trust (if that weren’t the case a triplex or a fourplex held in a trust would pose some interesting problems for the landlord-owner).
He refers to Sec 280A as if it had anything whatsoever to do with trusts or anything even remotely akin to what we do (it does not…280 has to do with tax allowances for Shared Appreciation financing and vacation homes). When he’s been as successful in this business as you have been and has written as many books and given as many thousands of workshops and lectures as I have, then he might begin to know something.
Everyone of your contentions is accurate. Just remember that trying to put a cork in a wart hog’s ass won’t turn it into something else: it’s nature is being a wart hog still.
Re. “court cases”…as you know, we’ve battled the best (both state and federal cases) and emerged victorious in all of them, not to mention a couple hundred failed unlawful detainer resistance attempts (i.e., when RB’s tried to play the professional-mooch tenant game, claiming Equity to avoid eviction). We have stood up to IRS scrutiny, Attorney General challenges, lender’s due-on sale challenges, and challenges by every doofus attorney in the country. This guy is no doubt a kid hiding behind the cloak of the internet in trying to make himself seem important by rattling your cage. Let him simmer in his ignorance while you make the bucks and live a life he couldn’t dream of attaining.
The moment he referenced Reed, it became abundantly clear to me that propagating misinformation is something he does without the slightest bit of remorse or concern for honesty.
Your friend and mentor,
P.S., If he doesn’t post his name in future posts I will post it for him (we have all of his ID information on file), then bar him from the board if he doesn’t go out and learn something.
And BTW Gary M…. Who is deleting his messages? I have not given anyone permission to do that? Neither Joe nor I did it. Why are they not on the board for everyone to see and comment on?
From: Bill Gatten [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 8:55 AM
To: bg >> “Bill J. Gatten”
Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: Land Trust forum]
Here is Steve’s email with the exchange between himself and this asshole, Get Smart. Hope all is going well.
Begin forwarded message:
From: Steve Odette
Date: September 13, 2008 1:29:21 PM MST
To: ‘Charlotte Foreclosures’
Subject: RE: Land Trust forum
Not only can I handle it.. it makes me laugh.
Thanks for the entertainment!
I have a business (actually three businesses) to
attend to now and feel that I’ve given you considerably
too much of my time as it is.
Again… write me again, and I’ll consider it harassment.
As for your comment on my ability to “handle your dissection”
that is also laughable.
What possible problem could I have with your desecration of
the facts? What can your dillusional ramblings possibly cause
Please, don’t pat yourself on the back or consider my request
that you discontinue wasting my time a sign of acquiescence…
Look at it this way… if a child threatens his parents for grounding
him… does the parent take it seriously? No. I consider your
remedial arguments based in dillusion and twisted fact no
different than the rantings of a small child who wants to be
heard or a bully who wants to pick a fight… just for the
sake of fighting.
You are obviously not interested in an exchange of facts… only
a spouting of your ignorance and a dogmatic ferver for staying
It’s kinda like having a conversation about religeon with a
person who claims to know what faith is right, but has never
read their Bible… it’s a moot point, isn’t it?
I can be of no service to you in this, to be certain… and you
have already wasted too much of my time to continue trying
to have any semblence of an intelligent conversation with
an “anonymous” party any longer.
My request is both personal AND legal. Do not reply to
As for “keeping it to myself” Hmmm… if I feel your
ignorance would serve the greater good – I’ll certainly post it
back to the forum.
If you are embarrassed by that… good.
bcc. Emmett Boney Haywood, Attorney at Law
3700 National Dr. Suite 112, Raleigh NC 27612
From: Charlotte Foreclosures [mailto:email@example.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 3:51 PM
To: Steve Odette
Subject: Re: Land Trust forum
Well i responding off the record to a post on the land trust forum.
My identity doesn’t matter. Just keep your commits to yourself if you
can’t handle the dissection.
On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Steve Odette
Disrespectful is sending me emails without a name…
Sounds like you already have all of the answers…
Gee – I’m so overwhelmed with awe, that I just cannot
find the words, or the interest frankly, to respond to your
uhm… err… intellectually superior capacity… for
Do not email me again… this is both a personal and
a legal request.
From: Charlotte Foreclosures
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:35 PM
To: Steve Odette
Subject: Re: Land Trust forum
first of all you should be respectful.
i am a full time investor, and have used trust to flip and
take properties subject to. was it difficult to explain the trust to
them? not for me because a seller that needs to sell simply gives
their house away.
most of my friends make excess of $100k per year and earn $50k
bonuses on top of their salary.
successful relationships are in the eye of the beholder. you
might be a relationship that you are happy with but your other might
be in a living hell. judgin from your responses your other might be
on the verge of committing suicide or maybe jsut wants to cheat
because she is with a bonehead that tries to act like you are being
respectful but really slicing someone with your senseless rhetoric.
i feel sorry for your students if you have any because it you
are teaching that smart people use trust for estate planning but
teaching them to use the trust for self purposes then you are leading
them to a case study that you know nothing about. just because you
place the term smart people doesn’t mean you have a clue of what smart
people really do nor how they behave. its evident in your replies
that you don’t know any smart people and yourself is a wannabe smart
person or you have been rejected so much by smart people with the fake
till you make it mentality. those smart people use the living trust
to avoid probate and not for personal investments to secretly sell the
plain and simple if you use the trust for any purpose other
than for estate planning you have violated the dosc. you mention the
so called smart people are the beneficiaries of trust they set up.
you may either be that dumb or been shoveling poop so long you are
used to smelling crap. if you are so convinced that you are doing
nothing wrong, then on your next transactions call the lender and tell
them that you are placing the property in trust and they you will be
the beneficiary of the trust and what you plan on doing with the
Read these codes about the irs deductions IRC ??280A, Section
When you say the trust are revocable(revokable) please learn
how to spell the read you use so modestly. The definition of a
revocable trust in Blacks Law dictionary is one where the grantor has
the right to revoke the trust. If the revocability is in the hands of
the beneficiary then it is an irrevocable trust because the person
that established the trust doesn’t have any say in the revoking the
trust. you can twist definitions but if you run your def’s by the AG
i am sure they will have a close look out on deals that you are doing.
plus how are you revoking any trust that you aren’t the grantor too?
if you say are the beneficiary then you have proven my poin t that the
trust is irrevocable. irrevocable doesn’t mean the trust is too last
forever contrary to popular belief but the grantor doesnt have the
right to revoke the unless he is a beneficiary. now if he is the only
beneficiary then it may still be revocable.
Just because you wrote any courses doesn’t make you an expert
nor an authority on what you write about. Hell, i can get a ghost
writer to write a book for and go to a self publishing company and
print up dozens of books for under $2,000 for everything. That goes
to prove that anybody can write a book.
You mentioned something about deception or how is it deceiving
when the buyers and seller knows about the transaction. Well that is
above board, but are you letting both lenders on how you are
constructing the deal? i am guessing you aren’t. you don’t have to
worry about the seller and buyers. lenders on the front end and back
end is where you have to worry. they have deep pockets and will give
you the most problems. its simply deceiving if you aren’t getting a
written statement from both lenders. if you aren’t getting statements
then its evident that they aren’t buying into your plan or you just
haven’t told them what you are doing.
its funny how anybody can self proclaim to be the all knowing
on a topic but the longer they speak the more shit that dribbling from
as for doing my own case study research somebody has already
produced one case which can be found here:
i have no problem with the eht nor its creator. i just
question any method that profess to be the bullet proof strategy.
every investment strategy has pro’s and con’s and if you don’t believe
that then you are a stupid idiot that will fall for anything.
On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Steve Odette
Whoever you are:
You are ignorant (look it up in a dictionary if you
the real meaning of the word… it’s not an insult,
statement of fact).
The IRS allows deductions for the beneficiary of land
with qualifications. Which a qualified resident
no one would set up trusts at all, and I assure you,
and smart property owners have trusts, are
beneficiaries of those
trusts, and take the tax deductions.
Generally, EHT’s never even get to court because there
attorneys who want to tackle unwrapping one – why?
they are legal and very well put together, when done
I’m certain that Bill has case law for you to examine
most of which involves people trying to do EHT’s on
or using land trusts from some other guru without
the hell they are doing. I am aware of NO case that
brought to court concerning an EHT where the investor
they used the documentation department of NARS to put
transaction together and EHC as the trustee.
I’m not defending it.. just making a point of what I
Tell me… list how many times your guru of choice has
You probably don’t know… likewise, NARS members
know when other NARS or non-NARS members get sued. You
asking us to do your homework. If you are so concerned
finding case law concerning EHT’s – well, get off of
and look for it yourself, we’re busy making money and
It isn’t like we keep track of those things – we
aren’t looking for
witches, like some folks. Good luck finding what you
are looking for.
Maybe your flawed logic is so disease ridden, your
can’t see the point or the facts… your aggression
and hatred of
EHT’s has obviously clouded any sense of reality,
reasoning in you.
HUD’s? Properties can be closed using a standard close
the Settlor… that might be why you don’t see EHT
The trusts are revokable and in every closing I’ve
revoked the trust before closing, it’s hard to close
in a trust… easy to close with a seller being a
person. So, I
revoke the trust. I’m sure others just close with the
but my sellers have not had any problems cooperating
when it’s time to terminate and sell.
So, providing a HUD from a trust selling… I couldn’t
help you if
I wanted to… and I certainly can’t provide the
someone elses closings legally. I’m not stupid or
Again… your ignorance is only exceeded by your
Twist the Garn act? Hell, I’ve given courses on it -
you? Most likely, by the way you write and the
you make, you aren’t even an investor… but maybe a
The Seller/Settlor never transfers the property out of
own possession… no violation of DOS. No fraud, no.
There is no deception being done using the EHT’s -
only a legal
way to do “subject to,” “L/O.” and other transactions
the complications or exposures of EVERY OTHER kind
of creative transaction… uhm… explain how that is
oh, and fully done with the cooperation and knowledge
each and every Seller…deceptive? Let’s see…
Follows the law… seller likes it… no one lied to
buyer gets to split profits with investor in most
cases and take
the tax deduction… seller agrees to terms… hmmm…
sounds like a bad, “deceptive” transaction to me…
Now, your emails from “anonymous” – those are cowardly
Conspiracy? What the hell are you talking about?
Show your face… hell, take me up on my invitation
me and I’ll help you get it right. But only if you can
Of course, that would mean actually paying attention
maybe admitting you are wrong.
Either get your manners and comments in line with
respectable business practices or discontinue writing
I replied respectfully to your nasty email at 4:00 am
I was busy writing lessons for my students… I’ve
each concern you’ve erringly accused, and I will not
again if you do not treat me with the same respect.
Also… what is your problem anyway? Why are you so
bent on slamming the EHT? What is your goal or aim?
It’s frustrating to see a person like you who is
himself more than anyone else… just by reading your
I can tell that you are not a successful person, are
financially secure, are not doing any real estate
are probably having serious, if any, relationship
and have few successful friends… I can also tell
things about you, but It would be impolite to put them
am I right?
Guranteed, I am.
If you want to fix any of those, you will need to look
at yourself in
the mirror and decide that it’s time to change you…
trying to point out why everyone else is wrong about -
If you don’t like the EHT… uhm… ok? Don’t use
Too funny… problem solved, right?
My friend, life is too short to waste your time on
what you do
not understand, know, or like. It’s like eating
yogurt… for some
folks, even though it’s good for them, it just isn’t
Finally, be careful who you treat badly in life, it
back to haunt you in ways you never even imagined.
< http://www.asksteveodette.com/> (private help desk)
From: Charlotte Foreclosures
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 11:40 AM
To: Steve Odette
Subject: Re: Land Trust forum
The IRS clearly states whoever gets the deductions is
the owner of the
property. If there isn’t one single case that shows
the eht stood the
test of the courts then how can you stand behind it so
throw me one case, its amazing how much this strategy
has been used
but not one court case. thats leading me to think
that there aren’t
many properties being closed with the eht.
i also ask someone to show me a successful eht closing
with the HUDs
to prove and to no avail.
Its funny how you twist the garn act. you said that
agreement is completed after the trust agreement and
is not showing
any transfer of occupancy. regardless of whether the
agreement is before or after it violates the garn
protection. if it is
determined the agreement was designed to deceive then
you have a
heavier weight on your hands and if you have done more
than one then
you are looking at conspiracy.
On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 5:12 AM, Steve Odette
Who are you?
Regardless… you are incorrect.
Here is what you are missing… the EHT does
not transfer ALL
of the interest out of the Sellers possession, like
many who use land
trusts teach, incorrectly.
On the contrary, at least 10% of the
remains with the Seller or “Settlor” beneficiary
throughout the entire
transaction, meaning… as in any good estate planning
device… the Seller/Settlor
beneficiary is still “A” beneficiary and
therefore, the property has NOT been
transferred out of their possession, in violation of
Also, Garn St. Germain allows for very specific
the DOS violations, you should read it.
It seems to me that you have not researched
thoroughly or you would already know this.
Also, the Settlor transfers his/her property
into the trust
and is initially 100% beneficiary… and the initial
trust does NOT
refer to any occupancy agreement or lease or any other
in keeping with Garn St. Germain, again.
Those documents are set up after the fact… if
at all (you
many simply place your property in trust for your own
estate purposes and
go no further than that if you like, for asset
There has not been ONE case study where the EHT
challenged and it has lost. Only several where
tried to do the trusts without using the proper
documentation or complete transfer of beneficial
Creating “dry trusts” (poorly executed and not
recognized) is easy… most guru’s teach this process
all wrong. Creating
a truly correct trust is a specific practice and all
of the elements
must line up for this to be recognized… which most
understand at all.
As for your comments about my posts being so
I’ll let it slide because you are obviously upset…
defensive for the sake of being defensive though…
and not for any benefit
to you or others.
You should be more careful about who you
if you don’t know the people you are showing
disrespect to and
you have not taken the time to do your
As for the “triple net lease” you are talking
about… I have
no idea what you refer to… I do no such thing nor do
doing so… in fact, they are not recognized as legal
in the NC
courts and can be challenged as to their validity. If
you read what I
posted, I stated exacty that… if you are doing NNN’s
then it is
absolutlely recognized as a sale.. or not legal,
depending on your state.
However, an owner of beneficial interest
certainly has the
right to occupy a property if other beneficiary
interest holders agree
to said occupancy… and can certainly claim the IRS
deductions as a beneficiary of the trust holding the
real estate… and
agree to pay all of the NNN responsibilities in
exchange for said
deductions… essentially leasing the property
This is a little complicated to learn… but
worth taking the
time to understand, just consider the implications if
what I am
explaining to you here is correct and you are wrong.
Rather than accusing and defending without
truly doing your
research… give me a call and I’ll do what I
can to help you
at least understand the details to make your own
before you make incorrect remarks or
assumptions based on
your incomplete or inaccurate information.
Also, stating that I do not know or believe the
I proclaim is ludicrous. I’ve done and continue
to do many
of these transactions… as well as others,
land, and the old traditional creative
techniques as well.
I not only know what I’m talking about… I
and use it on a regular basis. My attorneys
seem to feel that
I am pretty competant and I assure you… I am
and willing to prove it to you or anyone else -
as I do every
couple of weeks in live teleseminars with my
guests. Can you state the same?
How many transactions have you done this year?
money have you made? What kind of transactions
are you doing
I would be very happy to discuss the NEHTrusts
with you over
the phone, or any other real estate investing tactics
strategies as well, if you can refrain from acting
foolish, calling names, and
making uneducated accusations.
What benefit have you gained from acting so
obtusely to others
This is my name and signature below… please
courtesy to use your’s the next time you email me…
I’m busy, and have
many students to reply to… it’s common business
address others correctly and sign your correspondence.
P.S. I’ll be putting an audio, .pdf, and video
for my students concerning the NEHTrust in a
month or so…
I’d be happy to pass this to you in part when
it is complete
for your benefit… if you have an open mind to
the facts, that is.
From: Charlotte Foreclosures
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 4:10 AM
Subject: Land Trust forum
you can protest and claim all that you want,
but a land trust
does violate the dosc, if you use it the eht suggest.
transfer the rights of occupancy to any party from the
the dosc has been violated. i dont care what kind of
agreement you use, its still transfers occupancy
rights simple because while
the rb is in the property the grantor can’t move in or
property as they did when they applied for their
your post is so ridiculous that i don’t even
dissecting it. if you have case study that shows the
nars method stands up to the
test of court trial then show me the facts
otherwise its just
a complicated way to violate the dosc. you talk
triple net lease, if you have a tenant paying things
an owner normally
pays then it is a sale and needs a foreclosure
process. if it walks
like a duck its a duck. your logic is tarnished and
you don’t even know
or really believe the hoopla you proclaim.
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