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    Avatar of joecain

    Hi Bob -

    I appreciate the stated original intent of your post in this string. I get that you had a seller ask for info about Equity Holding Corp., the corporate entity that you are suggesting they transfer the title of their property to. That is a fair request that does occur periodically. So, you sent them to the website at and you or they, or both, poked around and checked out the professionally presented and organized content and all the great info available on the site that relates to EHC as Trustee for Land Trusts.

    It should not be difficult to understand the concept that the Company that Bill Gatten and the rest of us would steer people toward to use as the Trustee of the Land Trusts that NARS goes around the Country to do Educational Seminars and then generate the Trust Docs to put these transactions together would naturally have lots of information on their website about NARS and Bill Gatten and this website.

    I went to EHC’s website myself this morning after reading this string of posts in order to see what you were seeing. I found a good looking site with lots of information about who they are and what it is that they do. Nearly every page mentions NARS, the equity holding title transfer transaction known as the NARS Land Trust, Bill Gatten himself, or the NARS website. I even located the Upcoming Events page you mention. From looking there, I can guess that EHC has no current events to promote for themselves or steer you to attend, so they have posted info about NARS Events. Personally, I see that as a positive thing.

    Bob, I can tell you from my literally thousands of hours over the last few years spent searching a wide range of topics and surfing the web in order to find them, that links to other Companies, Events and People is the very life-blood of the world wide web. The internet is often little more than a wide ranging referral service. Think of it as the good old yellow pages on steroids, complete with more information (sometimes even stuff that is useful or beneficial), than ever previously dreamed of in the History of Mankind.

    That you are on the NARS website for the last couple of days, apparently complaining about content on somebody else’s website that we do business with, all over a link back to our very same NARS website occurs for me as more than a bit ironic. An analogous situation might be going to the website for good old Walmart and writing a post there complaining that you sent one of your candy vendors to the website for the chocolate giant Nestle, where they discovered a link back to Walmart, which seemed to cause confusion in the mind of your vendor over the literally millions of products available at Walmart. Oh, and then you asked Walmart to edit the content on Nestle’s website.

    Look, if you have a general complaint about the content or links that you find on a website, I would suggest that you consider the possibility of being direct and contact Equity Holding Corp. about your specific complaint. Posting it here on the NARS website really does not affect any change. Contacting EHC may not generate a change in their site content either, but at least you could create the possibility of change just by being direct.

    All my best to you and your wife. Contact me as you move forward. Glad to assist you, as always.

    For those who would like to see to what Bob refers, I have copied and pasted here the content on the Upcoming Events page at EHC’s website:

    North American Realty Services Seminars
    For additional Information and Registration: Go to

    Bill Gatten Workshops on Land Trust 2.5 day Training
    Time: Friday: 6:00 pm – 9:00 pm; Saturday: 9:00 am – 9:00 pm; Sunday: 9:00 am – 6:00 pm
    Call Lori 1-800-207-4273 (Ext 0)

    Every Saturday

    Weekly Telementoring Sessions
    Description: The weekly Telementoring Sessions happen every Saturday morning (except on national holidays) for Network Members and Quick Start Success Pack owners. The session recordings are posted in the Network Members Only section of our website every week.
    Time: 9 AM Pacific Time 10 AM Mountain Time 11 AM Central Time 12 PM Eastern Time

    You may go to for more information

    More to come thru out the year

    2.5 Day and 3 Day Workshops
    You may go to for more information

    Avatar of joecain

    Good Morning Dave -

    Not sure from your post which exact deductions you believe that you may be entitled to take. I am not a licensed professional tax consultant, but I believe that if you have some business expense being paid out by you along the lines of part of the monthly payment obligation or initial closing cost to set up the Trust, then you should have a conversation with your very own licensed professional tax consultant regarding this deduction and how you can realize this benefit. On the other hand, if you have no expense, what deduction are you looking for?

    Avatar of joecain

    Good Morning Sal -

    You raise a great question and one that I needed to take to others more knowledgeable on this topic than I.

    Of course, you can assist the family in generating a NARS NEHTrust with the current owner, the party in the hospital, as the Settlor Beneficiary and with the son who will either live in the property and/or be responsible for the monthly payment, as the Resident Beneficiary and with yourself as the Investor Beneficiary and the Client of NARS.

    There is a possibility that a Court or a Judge could set aside the Trust or force the sale of the property held therein in order to pay for the party’s medical bills, but that would only be adjudicated in an actual Court of Law after a case is filed. We cannot guarantee what a Judge will rule. It has been our experience over many years that it would have to be proven that the Trust was set up, on purpose, to deceive the State of California rather than being set up for the natural probate protections inherent in the set up of the Trust.

    We would ask that you consider the possibility of being active in speaking to the parties and setting up the Trust sooner, rather than later. Please do not speak in absolutes, simply because we are not attorneys and do not know with certainty how a Judge will rule, even if a case is ever brought before him.

    Avatar of joecain

    Hi Rick -

    I have been off the Board for a few days and am only now getting to this back-and-forth between you and Don.

    I encourage you to consider the possibility of being a difference-maker!

    Plan your work and work your plan. From where I am sitting and reading, I see no obvious flaws with your logic or your stated course of action. The point for me is that you are in action! Way to go, and I will echo what Scott wrote:

    “Good Job and Great Post Rick. Keep up the good work. Now let’s turn this activity in to closed transactions. Let me know if you need any assistance.”

    Let me know if I can assist as you move forward.

    Avatar of joecain

    Hi Sal -

    Sorry, but no. The NARS Non-Exclusive Option Agreement (NEO) is designed ONLY to allow you to acquire an interest in the Trust whose property the Trustee will hold title. NARS NEHTrusts are for property only. Any and all other assets are never placed into one of our NEHTrusts.

    Avatar of joecain

    Please see Alvin’s post above or click on this link:

    Look at line item number 33. Looks like it could be a perfect match. Call Alvin directly and have a conversation about working together on a deal.

    By the way, line item 160 is for a property only about 20 miles away.

    Please let me know how I can assist in your success.

    Avatar of joecain

    Are you kidding me??

    Please do not take anything that I am about to type on a personal level. The following is for everyone who can read and understand. I mean no offense. My goal is to be encouraging. It is merely a call to action. Here goes:


    I encourage each and every one of you reading this to consider the possibility of being positive and being a difference-maker.

    Alvin has just provided a gold mine of useful information. He has provided over 400 potential Resident Beneficiaries. Now, and I do suggest heavy emphasis on the word NOW, go out, make some calls and find him some houses to put these folks in!! You do not need to be in Simi Valley to find a house in Simi Valley for one of his prospects who has money ($$$$) and wants to live in Simi Valley. Just go on-line, find the phone numbers of FSBO home-owners in the greater Simi Valley area (start with 805 area codes and likely 522 or other similar prefixes), pick up your phone and call and read the NARS script. Amazing, unforeseen, and even miraculous events await your action.

    You want to help out and call some or all of the 400+ people on the list to see if they are still interested in being involved in a transaction? WHY?

    Get the houses! Alvin has the RB’s. Get our help here in the NARS Office, if needed, but put together some parties. Be the human being that assists these good folks in achieving “The Great American Dream of Home Ownership”. Be involved in generating the deals with Alvin, share the up-front monies at the initiation of the Trust, split the monthly positive cash-flow during the term of the Trust, divvy up the percentage of beneficial interest and back-end profits from appreciation or bumped equity at the termination of the Trust and walk together over to the bank and deposit your money!

    Most of you reading this haven’t generated a transaction in years, if ever, and here is the opportunity of a lifetime. You are being spoon-fed half a deal. Four hundred times. Several of you have even been in the camp of being able to find houses, but not able to find the RB’s to complete your deals.

    HELLO !!??!!

    Consider, even for only a moment, the possibility that the only challenges in front of you are the ones that you put there yourself.

    What if that really was the truth? That, what stops you from being successful in life are the challenges that you have invented and put in your own way. That you have that much power in your own life. If that really were true, then you also have the power to remove them and be successful. What an amazing possibility that would be.

    I encourage you to consider the possibility of being in action. Just for today. Just for this moment. Right now. Consider that any result you get from being in action today beats the results you have experienced previously. Make some calls. Amazing results may await you.

    Avatar of joecain

    It does not yet exist as such. The previous Volunteer Mentoring Board administered for the past several years by Big Jim P. was pulled down in the last week by Bill himself. All topics for the future may be posted and responded in the main section of our Board.

    Avatar of joecain

    A simple Letter of Direction should suffice. As a Beneficiary of the Trust, you have the Power of Direction over the Trustee, so you may generate any instructions you wish, have the Letter signed by ALL Beneficiaries that are required to sign and send the original off to your Trustee.

    Avatar of joecain

    Hi Sal -

    I appreciate your time and desire to generate a transaction. Thank you for your energy since joining the NARS Network and for your entries on this Board. This section of the Board is the right place for your original post in this string.

    The responses that I have read indicate that many out there do not think that this is a good transaction to enter into. Please do not take their responses personally. Most of us that post on this Board likely have an ideal transaction in our heads and anything that falls outside our comfort zone is responded to with the proverbial “NEXT”.

    Here is how this string of posts has occurred for me:

    >> You posted some baseline parameters for a potential deal.

    >> An experienced Member gave an opinion and asked a few questions.

    >> Another experienced Member gave you another opinion and some of his experience working with banks.

    >> You then posted some new info about a previous failed attempt for a loan mod and asked a question.

    >> Both experienced Members then gave additional opinions, including a “NEXT”, and a suggestion for the Seller to contact an agency that can quite possibly assist him.

    >> You next posted regarding deals falling into certain boxes and being complete lay downs, or not generating those deals.

    >> This was followed by more opinions and suggestions by the two experienced Network Members.

    This is all that has occurred in reality so far. By the way, allow me to acknowledge the contributions by homesavers and “Mister Moyes” to this string of posts. They are greatly appreciated.

    With your permission allow me to weigh in with my own perception and opinion:

    >> Your initial post mentioned an MAV lower than the principal balances. No can do. The minimum MAV at the inception of the Trust MUST be at least the equivalent of the total of ALL encumbrances on the property. For this deal, you have suggested about $480,000.00.

    >> Our experience over the years is that the CONCEPT of a foreclosure bailout type transaction like you have outlined, where the original owner of the property remains in the property and leases it from the Trustee holding title to the property in the subject Trust, is sound and should work. Unfortunately, the REALITY has been far different. Almost every one of these bailout scenario transactions have failed in practice. Many have resulted in expensive and time consuming litigation. There are certainly lots of reasons and stories for this, but the bottom line seems to be that most folks who have defaulted in their obligation to make timely payments once, eventually do so again. Only this time, they get evicted, not foreclosed upon, and their perception is that you are taking their house from them, despite the fact that they signed Documents that say something different. Even when you do everything not just right, but exactly right, as Mister Moyes would say, and win the ensuing court battle, there is still a high cost to you, the other parties, the Trustee and likely to NARS. We have chosen to refrain from generating Documents for these types of transactions. Go ahead and acquire the property if you choose, but find a different tenant to become the Resident Beneficiary, not the original owner.

    >> Next, and this really is the key point for me: From my reading of what has been presented so far, there are a few of what I call “Missing Pieces”. Some vital pieces of info were either not presented to you by the original owner or you have not yet generated them into one of your posts. It is my opinion, and I do not know if this is the truth, that this may even be the way this deal is occurring for others and that may be why the main response has been “NEXT”.

    Often, our newest NARS Network Members get a case of “gotta-get-a-deal-itis” and may not recognize a “money-pit-type” deal when one pops up in front of them. The ability to post your deal here without fear of it being stolen and yet receive some honest feedback to assist you in making a business choice that works for you is one of the ways that this Discussion Board is unique and different from many others out there.

    Ultimately, it is your your choice how to proceed. Please continue to allow us all to assist in your success.

    Avatar of joecain

    I appreciate the lively conversation on this topic and even appreciate the revival of the string of posts on this topic from 17 months ago.

    Once again, I have a different perspective than that of a poster on this Board. I am respectfully disagreeing. There is absolutely nothing that I see that is embarrassing here.

    The last time this topic came up, a very powerful choice was made! This choice was made by Bill Gatten himself and it was and is wholly his choice to make. The System and Process of Trust Documentation that we currently use is still Bill’s trademarked intellectual property and he chooses to conduct his business and present his Trust Documents in English for use in America.

    Oh, and just a guess here, but darn near every single person residing in America and reading these words has ancestors that were immigrants who came here from other lands. Mine included.

    I am encouraging each and every one of you to consider the possibility of being tolerant and prudent regarding furthering this conversation.

    If Bill chooses to make a change, then he will let us all know. Until then, the Docs are in English and only in English.

    As always, it is suggested that all parties be pro-active in gaining a full and complete understanding of any and all Docs before signing them. Bill’s Letter of Certification from that previous string says it really well.

    “I certify here that I, _______________, have been directed by the preparer of the subject documentation to have each page, paragraph, sentence and phrase reviewed and interpreted for me by a competent bi-lingual attorney (i.e., competent in English and _______________, and I have done so. My attorney’s name is: _______________.

    In signing these documents I am acknowledging that although I am not fluent in the language of America (English), even though I have resided in this country for ___ years, that I do fully understand their intent and protections, as well as their benefits, obligations and respective penalties for failure to adhere to all of their requirements.

    Further, I agree to hold _______________ and its/their employees, representatives, and or assigns free and harmless from any misunderstanding that I might claim as being a result of my inability to fluently speak and read the American Language (English).”

    Avatar of joecain

    To all who posted on this string just since last night -

    First of all, I must have missed the memo that allows you people to believe that you are able to continue to engage in name calling, whining and Bill-bashing on his web site. I encourage you all to consider the possibility of being civil and respectful. That is, please be so to Bill, to NARS, and to each other.

    Second, it is indeed true that several recent posts have either been deleted or edited by the moderators of this Board, including me. Editing other parties written content on a public Discussion Board Forum is a rather distasteful action and one that I have been rather reluctant to engage in as an action step. But rest assured, I will continue to engage if and when the need arises. And, remember folks, that nothing deleted from this open forum ever really disappears completely.

    As for a private, Members-only section of this Forum, this will occur when, and if, Bill Gatten chooses to make it reality. There has been much conversation on the topic and, to the best of my knowledge, this is not a tech issue. This is a Company Policy item and only Bill changes Company Policy.

    Now, on to the most important point: SoCalGal has raised a concern that she has and attempted to back it up with numerous posts of factual content. From her point of view, it is rather obvious that she believes that difficulty is now present in generating and completing one of the said “short term property transference” transactions.

    Well, Henry Ford (yeah, THAT Henry Ford) had a great quote nearly one hundred years ago:

    “Whether you think you can, or whether you think you can’t, you’re right.”

    The NARS Equity Holding Trust, trademarked, System of Documentation was designed for long term acquisition of properties, and not for the quick-flip-types of deals that have been discussed and dissected over the last year or so. NARS is not telling you that these transaction may not have issues in closing on the sales transaction following the termination of the Trust. I have researched this matter as well and spoken to Escrow and Title people. I am not an expert on these transactions; however, I have a basic understanding of what seems to be involved.

    Bottom Line:

    Until or unless I hear from any single NARS Network Member involved in a “short term property transference”, whose traditional real estate sales transaction following the termination of a NARS equity holding title transfer transaction using Bill’s trademarked System of Documentation fails to Close for the end buyer, specifically because of our Documentation, continuing this conversation is an ineffective expenditure of time and energy.


    So far, this whole four weeks of hundreds of posts on this topic boils down to the following:

    >> 1. One person, a NARS Network Member, claims to know exactly how to complete this specific type of transaction and has actually done so. Repeatedly. He thinks he can, and he’s right! (Fordism)

    >> 2. Another person, also a NARS Member, claims that she has tons of information that these specific transactions cannot be done, although she admits to never having attempted to do so. She thinks she can’t. And, guess what, she is right, too! (Fordism)

    Most of the rest of us, including me, are just interested bystanders. We are standing by waiting, watching, and sometimes offering our opinions and assistance, while the two parties above do battle like Godzilla and Mothra as Tokyo gets destroyed around them.

    Well, Henry Ford had a whole lot of really great quotes. Here is another:

    “Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal.”

    Please folks, keep your eyes on your goals.

    Property held in an equity holding title transfer transaction by virtue of the NARS System of Documentation is still the best and safest vehicle for acquiring and protecting and holding that property around. These transactions, when engineered to last over one year, have been generated and completed successfully for nearly twenty years. That is what our System of Documentation is designed to accomplish. And, it works. It really works.

    Yeah, I get that times change, as do economies and laws, and NARS is certainly spending lots of time and energy to do the research in order to stay on the cutting edge and be compliant. Please be patient and allow Bill and the legal team to be complete.

    Thank you all for reading.

    Avatar of joecain

    @land trust partners wrote:

    1. Who was the escrow lady that gave a very brief introduction of herself/her biz?

    2. And, Bill’s “synchronicity” land trust buddy from 18 or so years ago – what is Bob’s last name? Isn’t that the most amazing story!!!

    >> 1. Not all of your equity holding title transfer transactions will require an Escrow or Title Agent for Closing, but if yours does, then you are welcome to contact Paula Swallow. She is knowledgeable in traditional real estate closings, and those at the initiation and termination of our Trusts, and has handled deals in several Western States, not just in SoCal. She has an eye for details and is a pleasure to deal with.

    You may contact her directly at the following:

    Discovery Escrow Company
    7777 Center Avenue, Suite 180
    Huntington Beach, California 92647
    800-292-7184, ext. 14
    Attn: Paula Swallow, Vice-President/Manager

    >> 2. That would be Bob Pless.

    Avatar of joecain

    Hi Don -

    I appreciate your comments. The NEO is really only about eight years old and simply did not exist for the first dozen or so years that Bill was in business. Hundreds of transactions and deals took place and were completed before it was developed. Instead, he used what you suggested and attached the Appendix 1 from the Documentation Manual in your Success Pack as an addendum or attachment to a Sales or Purchase Contract.

    Look Don, as the old vaudeville comics used to say, if it hurts when you so that, then, don’t do that. As someone with a ton of experience in the industry, you do not need to feel compelled to use the NEO. Check in with Steve Perez in the NARS Office and have a strategy conversation with him regarding how you can proceed without.

    Meanwhile, that Non-Exclusive Option Agreement has assisted literally thousands of transactions to be forwarded, at least into the negotiation phase, if not into actual Trusts. Let’s not be so quick to throw out the baby with the bath water please.

    Avatar of joecain

    Hello oscar -

    I am not really sure exactly what you are asking in your post. However, before placing specific items on your website that might be Bill Gatten’s materials or those of NARS in general, please check in with Steve Perez in the NARS Office for guidelines. Much of the info currently found on this website is designed as public domain. Some of the items paid for by our Network Members along with their Success Packs and Memberships is not, so please contact Steve to confirm.

    Best of luck to you as you move forward.

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