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    Avatar of bill


    I’ll jump in here.

    Firt off, you’re right about investor’s being hestatn on this size of prperty; however, we might find a couple folks that would put in $4K each or 4 of them for $2K each. Or perhaps the owner could put in half of the it…remeber they all get their money back whether we are successful or not.

    Another thing, if the guy is out of the prperty and doesn’t care about keeping it, he could rent it out during the year it would take to expunge the loan or hold the forclssoure open (assuming there’s b een no sale date thus far).

    As far as three Arck is concerned, remember that even if we were to fail (‘never have yet, however), there are months and months of free house payments to consider. And if we are unable to prevent final forclsoure, we will virtually always get monetary restitution instead due to the ultra vires, deceit, forgery and and predatory lending practices of the faux mortgagor.

    Get this package together (email me at for the 80 pg 3Arck booklet…no charge, of course ) and I’ll put it out to our investor base.


    Avatar of bill


    In all humility…don’t you think this is all just and fair?

    I mean after all why shouldn’t we just get over it all and let the whole thing go away instead of being so anal about it?

    Afterall, they’re probably a bunch of nice guys and really-really sorry about all the Americans they’ve had to put out of their homes and on the street. You should have some pity for these poor souls…they’re just bankers after all.

    The bankrooks (oops I meant decoratsters), like those mentioned in the article, didn’t really mean to harm or dispossess anyone, much less bankrupt the economy. Their intentions were good…they merely needed to provide nice homes and livable incomes for thier multi-million-dollar per-year employees and representatives. You don’t find that kind of quality people just everywhere.

    The mortgage industry sorely needs a means to collect billions upon billions…OK “trillions” from the rest of us in order to survive. They can’t help needing to turn around and make us pay them another few trillion to make up for what they accidentally did to us. It’s our civic duty to maintain our banks…or else we could find ourselvess without homes.

    It’s like this: You invite a nicely dressed group of home-decorators into your home and they instantly see your design flaws…its obvious to them, the professionals, that you would be a lot better feng-shui’d without so much clutter in the various rooms of your home. So…they charge you for their advice and services, of course: i.e., for removing all of your furniture and valuables so you can have a more beautiful and much more airy home.

    They then sell all of your stuff to a guy in Moophertovia who pays them far more than your stuff is worth (that’s just good business) …but you are comforted in knowing that they did OK in the process. They then give you 80% of the true value of your stuff while keeping the Moophertovia profits for themselves with the proviso that you have the entire 80% back to them, plus interest over the next 30 years (nearly 3 times the amount the “loaned” you.

    But now that your home is devoid of all the mish-mosh, you discover that it’s only worth half of the 80% of the proceeds that your got. And since this has happened so many times across the country, your employer who got screwed the same way you did, by the same people, has to lay you off.

    Without a job and the impossibility of finding one you can no longer pay the decorators their monthly “protection fees,” so they kick you out of your home onto the street and sell it to someone else and keep the money.

    So now the government steps in and says to them: “That was a slick move, decorator guys, so how would you like to have all those little people that you’ve put on the street give you, oh say, $800 billion dollars from the income that they are no longer collecting because of what you (accidentally) did to them?”

    The decorators replie: “Oh goodie…that’s very cool! Thanks governemt.”

    So now that we have all this money, let’s pay you (the government), say q percent 10% of that 800 billion as protection from all those crazy homeless people who want so badly to harm us by demanding ther rights to restitution…just because they think its our fault that we had to steal from them…? And did they ever thank us for those boom times we created for them in the first part of this decade? Hell no! The ungrateful bastards!”

    Sigh… So, Amy, don’t be so hard on these poor billionaire flurm munchers…they meant well. Sometimes we just have to own up to the misdeeds that we outselves wreak upon ourselves by presuming that our trusted officials and the financial instutitons that we’ve built give a fidder’s **** about integrity…much less honesty and legality.


    Avatar of bill

    @NewTexan wrote:

    - I own these properties.

    Can you please expound on the following…

    I am not understanding how I should not claim rental income. I am confused by the phrase “[rental income] that you never receive” – I do receive rental income from the RB payments, don’t I?
    What am I missing? Thanks
    Sid (newTexan)

    Thanks Sid,

    As ably stated by “the bunch” when you don’t recieve the income, you don’t claim it…you only claim what makes your wallet fatter (the pos CF). Also when you say “I own these properties” the fact is that you don’t when they are in a land trust…the trustee owns them for you: you are not on title any longer.


    Avatar of bill

    New Texan (you can use your first name here so we know we’re speaking with a one will harm you, I promise),

    When you place a property into a trust, you are not selling it.

    When you lease it out to someone, you are not selling it.

    When you are called-upon to name a remainder agent for your trust (i.e., co-beneficiary), you are not selling anything.

    And when that remainder agent is also your lease tenant (leasing from your trust), you are not selling anything…it’s just that because of the arrangement, and because of IRC 163(h)4)D) that a co-beneficiary who can show that he/she pays the interest and property tax, and has the burden of ownership and possession, can claim the active tax loss (if they want to) according to Sec. 163 et. seq….

    What the the tenant beneficiary does between him/herself and the IRS is none of your business; therefore, there’s nothing to stop you from taking any write you would ordinarily be entitled to…however, it would do you no good to claim the write-off, because if you do, you’re going to have to claim the rental income [that you never receive]. The trustee’s collection service gets the rent it and sends you the overage as your Pos. CF…and you still have to pay tax on your positive cash flow. Ergo, why take the deduction? When you don’t, you don’t need to claim the rent as income (so, no tax on that non-existent income); and whether you claim it nor not, you’re still paying tax only on your positive cash-flow.

    It’s da Sam Ting eater weigh.*


    * Some Chinese guy I know.

    Avatar of bill


    Listen to Jane Diehm, her “answer” was the most cogent and helpful of all of the poof you got from our more lofty Members Elite.

    I didn’t see your “question” either; but I did see your statement and realized what your question was meant to be, as did Jane. We are masters at interpolation, Jane and I.

    I own the joint here and I personally invite anybody to post here, if they register properly, irrespective of what they might already know or not know. That’s the way you learn. Oh yeah, and you also have to be nice and speak kindly to all the other participants (like Gary M. does).

    Thank you for broaching the topic, and Jane is right on the money.

    Bill Gatten

    Avatar of bill

    Cork, its against the law to charge for bed bugs. Gather up as many as you can, put them in a jar and divide your monthly rent by the number of bed bugs you have, in order to determine how much each one of those bastards is worth…you might be rich!

    Call in the city health inspector, get a report and sue the hell out of your landlord for not taking care of business. Then let him settle with you with free rent for the next 12 years.

    Avatar of bill

    Cork, I would ordinarily delete this post of yours, but if I did it would appear that no one posts here anymore, so I’m leaving it on the board just to create the illusion of there being more posts than there actually are.

    I thought about duplicating the last two months’ of posts and reposting them 8 or 10 times each, all in one day…that would make us look real good…until someone opened two of the same one twice…then we’d be found out and look goofy again.

    OK here’s an idea…

    Make a note: This next Wednesday 4/13 is Joke Day…the one day of the week that lurkers can post something dumb. Think of your best, short [and clean] joke (tangy OK, corney OK…dirty No) and reveal it to our vast audience here on the NARSCor site.

    Wait….you have to wait ’til Wednesday, but here’s a sample: A horse walks into a bar and the bartender asks: “Hey Buddy, why the long face?”

    Another guy walks into a bar and seems astonished to see a horse tending bar, and says: “Hey, where’s the cow that was barkeep yesterday?”

    A midget walks into a bar…and had to have seven stiches.

    A termite with sore gums walks into a beer joint and asks: “Where’s the bar tender?”

    Note carefull that any joke posted here before or after Wednesday will be deleted at once, stolen and re-told as my own from that point forward.


    Sorry serious guys, but Cork’s right. We’ve either got to stimulate some prostitutic action here, or dry up, and this discussiong group has made mega-money for a lot of folks over the years.

    Words you cannot use in your joke (censored here, but you know what I mean…)

    $%^& & %^&* in particular
    #$%^&*- of a ^&* hanging from a ^&*** with a $%^ whacking your $#%
    You rotten ^&*(+ with the face of a monkeys %^&*(
    And so on…

    The only acceptable “F” words are:

    Fun, Fire, Frank, Fork, Finger, Fiona Apple, Fool, Fig, Flat, Flotsom, Floozy, Flick (as in “…your Bic”), Forensic, Frigate, Flume, Florida, Fish, Flood, Floppy (but only when prefacing disc, noodle or Nasturchin) and Fickle

    Avatar of bill

    Gary you are indeed the MAN! Very nicely done. Who could ever look at you for any length of time and realize that you are as smart as you actually are?

    If I wore a hat, I’d take it off to you…wait I do! I wear a baseball cap (I try to stay prepared in case they ever call me up for the big league)…and that hat, sir, is doffed to you.

    Waaay good going!!


    Avatar of bill

    The crap being perpetrated on the American populace by the mortgage/banking industry in cahoots with the “Feds” is the most aggregious governmental travesty since governmentally sponsored pre-frontal labotmomies in in 1940′s and 50′s (“Hey, just shove a steel darning needley into his eye-socket and up into the brain, and stir…that’ll straighten his ass out!).

    When people finally get this American Dream fairy tale out of their heads and relaize that we, like Gary said, have another few years to make it BIG enough to survive it all: then a few of us will (might) make it. The govenrment is not going to help you make it unless you become one of them and scramble up the ladder as fast as you can.

    Some of you might remember the South Park episode where Jimmy (“Jimaahh”) had a pet turkey with a broken neck causing its head to drag the ground.

    Well, if you do recall, remember what happened in the slaughter house…when all the turkes walked in happy and gobbling with glee, thinking they were in for a royal party. After they were inside and the doors were closed, all of a sudden a giant horizontal circular saw blade swooshed down and passed over the floor at neck height…severing every turkey-head in the room…except for Jimmy’s turkey (Bob…Earl…? I don’t recall). It was spared because it hadn’t expected the farmer to do anything special for it because of its uniquieness, and it’s head was well below saw-level. And, too, it was accustomed to living by its own resources, simply picking up the corn the others dropped in carelessness. It had never relied on the farmer for its nurturing, and becaue of its malady, it was hard to see in a crowd of other turkeys.

    Think about it for a moment. Get invested right now in everything you possibly can, if it doesn’t cost you anything, and keep your head down in the process. If you do that, you and I will be he only ones still standing when the big doo-doo hits the proverbial fan.

    Amy’s referenced article (re. the Feds and FC’s) doesn’t deal with any of the hundreds and hundreds of cases already brought to fruition wherein one lender after another were unequivocally proven to be at fault and undeniably guilty of fraud, deception and predatory lending (…and tax evasion).

    The Fed research party in the article were looking at the microcosm, like Civil court judges do in California (‘though some are indeed the best that money can buy): i.e., “Well, I haven’t read your counter-complaint; but who cares? The fake deed presented to me by the bank, acting unlawfully or not, appears to have been filled out properly. So that’s it Bucko. You lose!”

    …and there’s not a single civil court judge who has enought balls (i.e., in his rack at the pool hall) to stand up for the citizens and the country he’s supposed to protect from blatant misuse of the legal system.

    Why do I hate lawyers? Because so many are just the larval form of do-nothing, payola-roll*, bench-warming civil court judges.


    *Not necesarily taking money, but beeing treated well politically by those who benefit most from thier heartless decisions.

    Avatar of bill

    The EHC seems to be working fine – just checked it.

    And…whatever Tom Standen says…you can take it to the bank and smoke it.

    I.e.: You can lead a horse to water, but if you cross the street you’ll need a chicken with red suspenders to make it drink (??? Low blood sugar this morning, Iguess…’gonna have to check that)

    How does EHC and NARS differ? In everyway. NARS markets the concept and prepares legal documentation and offers training and consultation services to its members and their clients. EHC and EMS hold the deeds, and collects and disburses (and impounds) payments for the parties, serving as a legal buffer for litigation and threats of litigation (for which they charge way too little).

    NARS and EHC (and EMS) are separate, unassociated companies under wholly different ownership and managment.


    Avatar of bill

    Cork (and all)

    Remember that a Realtor(R) does not have any fiduciary responsibility to a client’s lender. Their loyalty and responsibility is solely to their client. They have no obligation to report anything to any lender which is not germane to he transaction at hand, or directly deleterious to a party’s interests from a legal standpoint.

    There is no regulation, after my offer has been accepted, signed and dated by a seller, that would require an agent to notify the lender of subsequent better offers (even though they might sometimes insinuate that he/she should do so and try to coerce such actions).

    The Fraud comes in when I have a buyer that I know will pay more than I might have to, and I manipulate the bank into accepting a short sale offer so I can turn around and make a profit on the buyer I already had waiting in the wings.

    No, there is no trouble in keeping a retail buyer in the loop after the short sale offer has been accepted, signed and sealed and awaiting lender approval.

    Analogy: You just submitted an accepted offer to a lender and are awaiting word on an approval. I come to you and ask if you have a property available for me. You say, “Not at the moment, but I think I may have an approval coming in on one next week.” Can you see that neither of our actions is fraudulent in any way? And wouldn’t I be willing to sit back and wait to see if you getting the house I want?

    Avatar of bill

    @jasongrayinvestments wrote:

    As I understand it, the EHT is the integral part of this whole thing.


    1. Homeowner wants to walk away. They’ve done all they want to do, but feels there is nothing else that can be done.

    2. We come in, with the homeowners approval, put property in EHT.

    3. Begin either the LFC program or the 3ARK process. One we do ourselves, the other done for us.

    4. At the end of LFC, house is back free and clear. FREE and CLEAR. We (the EHT) have no more loan/mortgage/lien against the property.

    5. At the end of 3ARK, the loan/lien/mortgage is removed, then the house is secured with a lien, so at the end, we dont’ have a free and clear house.

    do I have it correct for the most part? generally?

    I’m seeing advantages to this program but being the greedy capitalist that I am, I ask. Why not do the LFC so I have a house which I owe nothing to nobody.

    just kicking some thoughts around…ideas? comments?

    I am still buying rentals and happy with that for the time being, but this process is starting to make real sense if done correctly and I need to get my head wired straight before I go off and do something dumb by accident.


    Jason, the LFC program is a do-it-yourself program to get your property free and clear (if you don’t weaken along the way). It is apparently working for a lot of people, though I don’t personally know of any full re-conveyances (that means nothing though, as I am not as integrally involved with LFC as I once was…though I still promote them for anyone who wants to go it alone. Their training is superb and their documents are excellent).

    With 3Arck one just pays the money and sits back and waits…the3 Arck staff does it all,and they handle contingencies that come up w/r legal issues, court hearings, quiet title and all that.Their track record so for is success on a couple hundred transactions out of a couple hundred (only one failure to date due to a client’s giving up Possession by moving out when he didn’t have to).

    They (3A) are able to get the job done and get title insurance and the whole ball of wax in a few months.

    Now, in terms of the benefits for the owner: Understand that the 3 Ark program is tantamount to getting brand new 100% financing at the theTRUE current value of the property and eliminating all the over encumbrance.

    There is absolutely nothing lost: the party has 100% financing, only half of a loan payment to make and keeps 100% of all the fee-simple bundle of rights in real property ownership. They get all future appreciation, equity build-up from loan principal reduction; full income tax write -off, use occupancy, possession, water rights mineral rights, clean credit, no deficiency judgment, no taxes due on debt relief, a year’s moratorium on house payments; all the income the property might generate. And ontop of it all, someone else made a 50% down payment for them re. their new 100% financing…with no interest or payments. AND THE PROPERTY IS SHIELDED AGAINST ALL TYPES OF CREDITOR CLAIMS, TAX LIENS, BKs, LAWSUITS, DIVORCE ACTIONS, PROBATE, ETC.

    What more could any one ask for…for $7,995..especially in view of the money-back success guarantee and a fully refundable $7,995?

    And think about how much how much you,as a Ruby Member make on, say, a million dollar house (1/3rd of $600,000)

    Bill Gatten

    Avatar of bill

    Sorry Scott, but I deleted your post re. LFC and this not being the place to discuss these things.

    I don’t differ with you very often, but this is one issue I am adamant about.

    Our poster, lurkers, members and students must know that there is more than one way to skin a Mugwump. I want EVERYONE to know that this IS the NARS and Bill Gatten Wealth Institute website and Discussion Group, and that I am only interested in making money for our members and followers, irrespective of how it’s done???as long as it’s done legally, ethically and honestly.

    As much as I love the PACTRust??? and EHTrust???, over the last two years, I’ve had to acknowledge (and Dave Salcido is the one who opened my mind to it) that I and “my students” and followers have to get through this freaking economy. Period! And the3Arck program is one way to do that quickly and simply. To date this year I’ve pulled in about $70,000 for LFC (for which commissions I am very grateful) and another $165,000 or for 3- Arck in deals we’ve facilitated so far (another four checks arrived today totaling $32,000 in all and more are on the way.

    Here’s the deal: Three Arck and us (NARS and you) make a ton of money on these deals and leave the homeowner with no equity at start (they just get 100% financing, complete freedom from their over-encumbrance, all future appreciation, all principal reduction, all income tax write-off benefits, any/all income from the property; a year’s moratorium on house payments , avoidance of a deficiency judgment, avoidance of taxes due on debt-relief, and a loan at only half of the property’s value.
    We carry the other half without interest or payments. And on top of it all, we hold the properties in PACTrusts??? in order to shield them against other creditors, marital disputes, bankruptcies, probate, etc???.as well as shielding all the parties against untoward or illicit acts by, or against, each other.

    All of that is pretty hard to beat for $7,995. However, if anyone would deem that to be just too much money for us (you and me) to make (i.e.,40% of all the equity in a free and clear property), then we refer them directly to the LFC program wherein they can do it all themselves and keep all the equity for themselves and not need us at all.

    Understand clearly that this forum is for making money in the “creative” real estate investing business, NOT for isolating ourselves from the rest of the real estate investing industry.

    If you have new ideas…we want to hear them.

    If you want to make money, you want to hear us.

    Bill Gatten

    Avatar of bill

    Can’t return Emails??


    Some of us carry these little things around in our pockets that are about the size of a Dick Tracy Crime Stoppers Radio Wrist Watch that can do that. You merely push a couple buttons and Viola! There you are answering messages with your very own tiny little Dick Tracy opposable thumbs.


    Avatar of bill

    Nice going Amy.

    Pissing off a Realtor(r) to save someone’s life, sanity and self-respect is just too fricking bad (whatever “fricking” means…’always wondered).

    You’re now getting to where I’m getting, I see. Short sales are great for your pocketbook and mine (and the bank’s); but there are often other solutions that are light years better for the homeowner, which when employed, don’t cost us anything and leave the owner in the house, and conniving bank %$^&’s out in the cold where they belong..

    Just be sure that you are ALWAYS a buyer or a seller in one of these transactions (or any other for that matter), or you are practicing RE brokering without a license. And a licensee (especially a pissed-off one) will cut a hole in your neck and suck your spleen right out through it.


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